Posts by Nate Merit

31

Misinformation in CoC

by ICBehindtheCurtain in

hello everyone, i know that many here like me have read ray's book crisis of consience, i was very impressed with it, it helped open my eyes to the hypocrisy and double standards of the wts, and ray gave me the impresion of being a very loving and kind man, not the demonized apostate we were all lead to believe.

but, i noticed something that wasn't quite correct when i was reading the part that spoke of then brother rene vazquez, he makes it seem like all rene did was have private conversations with ray and nothing else, this is not true, i for a fact know that this was not all that happened.

in a ms meeting on tuesday back in 1980, rene was conducting a part and he went up to the stage with only his bible, he started saying that all we needed was the bible, that we would no longer be using other publications by the wts .

Nate Merit

(In a MS Meeting on Tuesday back in 1980, René was conducting a part and he went up to the stage with only his bible, he started saying that all we needed was the bible, that we would no longer be using other publications by the WTS , everyone looked around at each other shocked, this also went on in the various congregation book studies that week, 8 out of 9 elders were in on it, they all were saying that all we needed was the bible, these other books were unnecessary, well, a week later was the Memorial, Vazquez gave the talk and said some weird stuff about how all christians are sons of god and other stuff that I can't remember, it was a while back, but everyone was looking over at each other and wondering what was going on. Rafael Angulo which was one of the elders and a good freind of Vazquez, partook of the emblems, so did Vazquez, everyone was very surprised to say the least, one of the sisters was outraged and marched down to Bethel to tell them about this, another person had recorded the meeting, because Vazquez was an excellent speaker and had quite a following, this tape was turned in to Bethel for evidence against Vazquez)

So, you disagree with these men telling people the truth, that they didn't need the WTBTS or it's spiritual-vomit books? Or that all Christians should be paratking of the Emblems because their is "one faith ONE HOPE?"

I know you're only speaking this way for dramatic effect, letting us know how you reacted at the time. Just having some fun. Hi!

Nate

33

The Septuagint or the Hebrew Text, Which Should Christians Choose?

by Nate Merit in

(the following article by nathaniel j merritt was originally published in 1996 in the now-defunct orthodox way magazine, a small theological journal which explored obscure or controversial issues in the eastern orthodox spiritual tradition.

should christians embrace the greek septuagint translation of the old testament or the hebrew text?

if we are jews, then by all means let us embrace the hebrew text.

Nate Merit

The Septuagint Versus The Hebrew Text Which Should Christians Use? by Nathaniel J. Merritt Should Christians embrace the Greek Septuagint translation of the Old Testament or the Hebrew Text of the OT? Where should Christians put their trust? On this issue most Christians, and nearly all Bible translators, are mistaken. That’s quite a claim, yet I make it in perfect comfort and confidence. Why? Because of my own vast authority? Of course not. I make it on the Authority of Christ's example.

The Septuagint is a Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, completed by seventy scholars (as tradition has it) in Alexandria, Egypt, between 300-200 BC. ‘Septuagint’ means ‘seventy’ and it is often abbreviated as LXX, Roman numerals for seventy. It was produced because most Jews no longer spoke the Hebrew language. Instead they spoke Greek, which was the lingua franca of the Roman Empire. Some also spoke Aramaic, a close cognate (Linguistic cousin) of Hebrew. No matter what your native tongue may have been in that period, if you were a Roman citizen you also spoke Greek. Rome had conquered Greece militarily, but Greece had conquered Rome intellectually and linguistically. Greek philosophical ideas and ideals had been embraced by Rome to a large extent.

In nearly all of the quotations of the OT in the NT the Septuagint is used. This is extremely important to know because it has far reaching implications. Also, it is important to know that the Hebrew canon of Scripture had not yet been closed or settled upon in Christ’s time. The Hebrew text was in a state of flux until well into the Christian Era, when Jewish scholars finally closed the canon of OT Scripture, and the Hebrew Bible took the settled form in which we have it today.

Anyone who reads the Septuagint is struck by how much more ‘Messianic’ it is than the Hebrew version of the OT. Meaning, there are more verses in the Septuagint that can be taken as pointing to the Messiah (the Christ) than one can find in the traditional Masoretic Hebrew text. It is the Masoretic Hebrew text that has been the basis for virtually every English translation of the Old Testament since the time of William Tyndale. We must ask ourselves ‘Why would pre-Christian Jews make a translation that is more ‘Messianic’ that their own traditional Masoretic Hebrew text" The fact is, they did, and we need to understand why. It is my contention that the Septuagint is more Messianic than the Hebrew version of the OT for a very good reason.

Before I reveal that reason, however, let’s take a moment to think about the fact that Jesus and all the rest of the NT writers mainly quote the Septuagint. Why would someone like Paul do that? He was a Pharisee and hence well instructed in Hebrew. He pretty much ignored the Hebrew text in favor of the Septuagint. Christ Himself, in the quotations ascribed to him, quotes mainly from the Septuagint. With the Seal of Approval of Christ Himself, as well as the Apostles, why would Christians follow the Jewish text? Doesn't that sound a bit unwise to you? It should because it is.

The simple fact of history is that the Hebrew text of the OT was not only ignored by Christ Himself and the Apostles, it was ignored by the entire Christian Church until the ‘Reformation!’ You read it right. Ignored. By the entire Christian church. For 1500 years. In the Roman Catholic Church, Saint Jerome’s Latin Vulgate (From the Latin word 'vulgata', meaning ‘common’ not ‘vulgar’ in the modern sense) was in use. In Byzantium, the Eastern half of the Empire, the Septuagint held sway.

So, let’s review. Christ, the apostles, and all NT writers virtually ignored the Hebrew text. As did the entire Christian church until the so-called ‘Reformation.’ Was Christ mistaken or deluded? Were the Apostles well-meaning blunderers? Or did they know what they were doing? I am convinced they knew what they were doing. I think it goes without saying that Christians should sit up and take notice of this fact if for no other reason than Christ used the Septuagint.

Why would Jews, two centuries before Christ, have produced a translation that was not merely a translation, but took liberties with the Hebrew text by translating in such a way that made it read in a more ‘Messianic’ fashion in a number of places? Could it be they were moved to do so by Divine Inspiration? That is the crux of my hypothesis. On my side of the debate stands Jesus Christ, the Apostles and all other NT writers, as well as the ancient Christian Church right up into the 1500’s. Pretty impressive team.

Where would pre-Christian Jews get ‘Messianic’ ideas that would cause them to translate their sacred scriptures in a ‘Messianic’ fashion? They imbibed these ideas from their surrounding Hellenic culture. The philosophical concepts of both the Logos and the Christos (divine principles that were thought to be present within all humankind) were highly developed in Greek thought, and the Jewish people had warmly embraced these concepts. Judaism had it’s mental, spiritual, and linguistic horizons vastly expanded by Greeks language, philosophy, and culture. OT Hebrew had a vocabulary consisting of only about 10,000 words. Koine Greek had over a million.

I contend that the translators of the Septuagint were indeed inspired to bring out the Messianic implications of the OT in a significant number of verses. The Christ and his followers were also inspired to do so. What are the implications of all this, you ask? Simply put, ever since the Protestant Reformation when men such as Luther, Zwingli, and Calvin chose the Hebrew text over the Septuagint, the various Protestant churches have been using the wrong OT. The Septuagint is rich and satisfying in it’s Messianic content. The Hebrew is woefully lacking by comparison. The Septuagint bears the Stamp of Divine Approval via Christ Jesus and His Apostles. Why should we reject Our Lord’s example? The fact that modern Christians do so puzzles me.

Some Protestants become irate and start huffing and puffing about the Septuagint containing the so-called ‘Apocryphal" books of the OT. So what? Christ used the Septuagint as did the Apostles. The historical facts of the matter are that Christians were highly successful converting Jews to Christianity using the marvelous books many Protestants now call ‘Apocrypha.’ This success in evangelizing Jews is what led the Jews to reject these books and leave them out of their Hebrew Bible. In fact, the Jews closed the Hebrew canon in reaction to the success of the Christian church in evangelizing the Jews using these books, well into the Christian era. So, following the Jewish example in rejecting these books is not very wise, is it? Anyone who reads the Wisdom of Sirach (Also called Ecclesiasticus, not to be confused with Ecclesiastes) from the Deutero-canonicals will be struck at its profundity and superiority to both Proverbs and Ecclesiastes. So, ‘Apocrypha’ is an insult these books certainly do not deserve.

Like the rest of the books in the Bible, some are better than others. Certainly, no one would choose Numbers over Isaiah, or Esther over Genesis, or Ezra over the Psalms. Bible books are not all of equal value. So too with the Deutero-canonical books, which means ‘Second Canon’ and is the preferred designation for these books. Not all are equally valuable.

The fact that these books are not quoted in the NT means absolutely nothing. Ruth, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Ecclesiastes, and the Song of Solomon are not quoted in the NT either. Shall we dismiss them from the canon too? No? Then neither should we dismiss the Deutero-canonicals because they are not quoted in the NT. However, there are a number of allusions to various books of the Deutero-canonicals in the NT. For example, Jude 14 quotes the Book of Enoch (Also known as Ethiopian Enoch) 1:9. The Book of Enoch is a wonderful example of the spiritual blindness of post-Christian Jews. This book is the single most Messianic of all Jewish books, bar none. It is an astonishingly Messianic book and a truly edifying and inspiring read If any book of the OT is inspired, it is Enoch, yet the Jews dumped it because it is so very Messianic. Read the Book of Enoch for yourself at:

http://www.reluctant-messenger.com/1enoch01-60.htm#Chapter25

I make this plea to the Hierarchs of the various Orthodox Churches: Can you not appoint qualified scholars, both Textual and Linguistic, to assemble and translate an authoritative edition of the Septuagint? Is it beyond the ability of the Orthodox Churches to produce a translation of the Bible specifically for the Orthodox faithful in America? For the New Testament, an authoritative edition of the Byzantine (Majority) text-type would be needed. Such an edition already exists, but was produced by Evangelicals and Fundamentalists, so the Church may wish to produce it’s own edition of the Byzantine text-type. In a follow-up article I will make my case as to why the Byzantine text-type preserves the genuine text of the New Testament, and modern "eclectic" Greek texts, based on only a handful of uncial manuscripts, do not.

I will conclude this short article by reiterating the fact that Christ, the Apostles, all of the NT writers (except for a few quotations), and the entire Church pretty much abandoned the Hebrew text in favor of the Septuagint. Even the few times the NT writers use the Hebrew text rather than the Septuagint, it is not the traditional Hebrew text of the Masoretic scribes. Yet all English translations base their translation of the OT on the Masoretic text.

Are we Christians or Jews? Who is our Lord? If we are Jews, then by all means let us embrace the Hebrew text. If Christ is our Lord, then let us embrace the Septuagint, even as Christ did.

Nathaniel J. Merritt
Copyrighted 10-31-2005

51

i called bethel RE: voting...

by in a new york bethel minute in

.

still not a conscience matter... although for the countries that demand that everyone register and actually walk in the booth to cast a vote, a witness may, if his conscience allows, register and go into the booth and add a new box labelled "jesus christ", then checkmark that box and vote for him... hahaha cool eh?!!!.

bethel

Nate Merit

Adolescent behavior more like. It sounds like something I would have done as a teenaged Jesus Freak. "Oh groovy man, lets like vote for Jesus you know? Like wow man." But then, everything the WTBTS advocates is barmy and more than just a bit sodden.

Nate

19

Theocratic Warfare: Is It Still Practiced?

by Nate Merit in

i was "in the truth" for about four years and was disfellowshipped thirty-three years ago at the age of nineteen.

when i became involved, at age fifteen, i was taught 'theocratic warfare' which is 'lying for the truth.

' it really didn't bother me until i was several years older and became more introspective.

Nate Merit

AMEN Honesty! That would be marvelous indeed!

19

Theocratic Warfare: Is It Still Practiced?

by Nate Merit in

i was "in the truth" for about four years and was disfellowshipped thirty-three years ago at the age of nineteen.

when i became involved, at age fifteen, i was taught 'theocratic warfare' which is 'lying for the truth.

' it really didn't bother me until i was several years older and became more introspective.

Nate Merit

Hi Mastodon

I don't think I have yet mastered the arcane art of pasting a quote on this site.

I took a look at the link you provided, and followed the link on the link to the stuff that did stink.

It's difficult to read WTBTS material. It's revolting even after thirty thre years. Bible Student materials though are much easier to read, though no easier to take seriously.

How long you been out of the Tower?
Nate

19

Theocratic Warfare: Is It Still Practiced?

by Nate Merit in

i was "in the truth" for about four years and was disfellowshipped thirty-three years ago at the age of nineteen.

when i became involved, at age fifteen, i was taught 'theocratic warfare' which is 'lying for the truth.

' it really didn't bother me until i was several years older and became more introspective.

Nate Merit

Gaybeat!

I love your icon BTW. It looks like a surreal kiddie-show host.

Nate

175

The facts on crucifixion, stauros, and the "torture stake"

by Leolaia in

finally, i will look at biblical and patristic evidence bearing on the crucifixion of jesus in particular.

we need to examine the earliest known descriptions of the kind of crucifixion adopted by the romans and the specific terms they used to refer to it.

apparently the society believes that crux still meant "stake" in the second century a.d., when tacitus composed his annals.

Nate Merit

I'm impressed, and I don't impress easily. I stored this post on my computer. Now, if I can only find a JW with enough gray matter to read it and understand it...

Nah.

Nate

15

Satan Vs. God: Tally of Destruction

by acuragirl in

ok i was just thinking about horrible satan and loving god.

can anyone rack up the death and destruction of these two for comparison?.

god has the destruction of all life on earth save for noah and his family and 2 of each animal.

Nate Merit

Hi SeattleNiceGuy

What if Biblegod and Satan are one and the same?

Nate

19

Theocratic Warfare: Is It Still Practiced?

by Nate Merit in

i was "in the truth" for about four years and was disfellowshipped thirty-three years ago at the age of nineteen.

when i became involved, at age fifteen, i was taught 'theocratic warfare' which is 'lying for the truth.

' it really didn't bother me until i was several years older and became more introspective.

Nate Merit

Hello Tall Penguin

How very odd. A truthful elder. A sure sign Armageddon is upon us!

Hunkering down awaiting the End,
Nate

19

Theocratic Warfare: Is It Still Practiced?

by Nate Merit in

i was "in the truth" for about four years and was disfellowshipped thirty-three years ago at the age of nineteen.

when i became involved, at age fifteen, i was taught 'theocratic warfare' which is 'lying for the truth.

' it really didn't bother me until i was several years older and became more introspective.

Nate Merit

Hi Nathan Natas

I like your icon of NH Knorr. I think he was still Prez while I was doing time in the Tower. Heal up soon from that grenade my man.

I can't recall ever engaging in theocratic warfare. Though I lied through my teeth about matters other than religion. Such as when I was peaking on acid and my two headed scaly dad asked me if I was doing drugs...

Nate